Imagine Coney Island Avenue
Thursday, February 4th, 2010
What do you like about Coney Island Avenue (CIA)? What don’t you like about Coney Island Avenue? What would you like to see different?
At the request of Church Avenue BID, Pratt Center for Community Development is planning to start work with the community to develop what’s called a “community vision” for CIA between Cortelyou Road and Parkside Avenue. Pratt will survey the area and its current conditions, and community will be invited to meet and discussions what works there, and what does not, with the end result will be a report on what are the options for making CIA better serve the needs of the surrounding communities.
Please contact Paula Crespo at the Pratt Center for Community Development (718.636.3486, ext. 6455 or pcrespo@pratt.edu) if you are interested in participating or want more information.
61 Responses to “Imagine Coney Island Avenue”
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matthew says:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Driving on CIA (mostly south of Courtelyou) is a nightmare. It essentially turns into a single lane road, as people double park in the right lane and cause serious traffic problems. I feel like they should create a middle lane with meters so there is additional parking, and so we can stop pretending it’s a 2-lane road.
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bklynartiste says:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:15 am
What I don’t like:
The INSANE number of cars in front of “Car Collision Business Row”. You cannot walk easily on the sidewalk because off all the cars are parked on it. Since when is head-first/back-first parking allowed along the side of a major road?
Cars that run the Cortelyou light
Hills and valleys of asphalt while trying to ride your bike
Just plain depressing, dirty from the Park circle till probably Avenue J.
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Melissa says:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:48 am
It needs more trees and a bike path. And yes, a good scrubbing or somthing to make it look lust dust bowlish
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Melissa says:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:49 am
lust dust bowlish? Forgive me, LESS dust bowlish.
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sara says:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
I try to avoid it as much as possible except to catch the bus up to the park. The retail and restaurants are middling with a few exceptions so there’s no destinations to make it appealing. The car repair shops make it really loud during the day but abandoned at night. As a pedestrian the sidewalks are really filthy. Trash and mid-repair or abandoned cars parked on the sidewalk block your way. The street itself is difficult to cross with really fast crosswalk signs and deadly cars running the lights. The street is buckled and I’m always afraid I’ll trip mid-cross. The cars going up and down CIA are racing to the lights and pay no attention to pedestrians. You get the drift…
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bkforman says:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
The double parking is a major issue. You get a $115 ticket in Park Slope for double parking – why not on CIA?
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Sasha says:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Dirty, creepy and like a demolition derby graveyard… I actually thought it was far beyond saving – I sure avoid it as much as possible – so this is interesting.
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William says:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Coney Island ave. is so wide because it used to be a main street for street cars. Why not bring back street cars to the center. Ride a street car to coney island!
How about a big beer garden closer to the park! I think CIA would be the perfect place for that sort of thing. Imagine hanging out in the park in the summer and then walking down to the beer garden on CIA. Or taking the street car from park circle to the beer garden!
Obviously less of the car stuff would be waaaay helpful to making it a more pleasant place.
More trees!
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Anna says:
Something green would be nice. Grass? Hanging planters? Pocket parks in the empty lots, with a dog run? I’d take a mural or two. Improved lighting for pedestrians, too. Glad to hear an improvement is in the works.
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Bruzen says:
It is interesting that this has finally come up, because as I take my son to school daily by bus (B68), I am treated to the disconsolate view of the avenue every day. It seems there never was planning in place, and CIA just happened. For one, there are a many storefronts & buildings for rent and an abandoned development site just north of Beverly. The new construction on the corner of Slocum has not added anything. It occurs to me quite frequently that the only solution to CIA, sad to say, is to plow it and start from scratch. I am not sure there is much worth saving.
On the other hand, CIA could be a source of business development that cannot occur on the main strips. For instance, we are lacking a health club and CIA would be a perfect location for one. Also, the avenue is lifeless with absolutely no green areas to be found. It may be hard to do give the saturation of oil and antifreeze the ground has absorbed.
I would love to attend a planning session for this project because it is really challenging. Given what the city has done elsewhere though, I am not optimistic. There needs to be a more organic evolution to development, and the gentrifyers and greedy developers are just not that patient. Developers do not have a history for caring much for the communities they intrude upon.
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bklynartiste says:
Yes! TREES! More GREEN! Dust bowl is a perfect description of what it is right now. And that’s sad, considering it’s off the park.
I agree with one poster: it seems to have never had a plan to start with. I certainly hope some good plans get placed–and soon!
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jaguar_gorgonne says:
There is nothing good about CIA. It is what it is. A north-south artery for truck traffic.
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James says:
The double parking and the auto shops using the right TRAVEL lane as an extension of their business is totally absurd! Why should we expect bus lines and traffic to be anything other than gridlock if traffic laws are not enforced. CIA should be a TWO-LANE road, simple as that.
Luckily for CIA, the road is a little bigger… my comments about traffic/parking enforcement are EVEN MORE critical on Flatbush and Nostrand. If you can park in the middle of the road, maybe they should get rid of the buses and other things that want to drive in a straight line down the street.
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James says:
Oh, yeah. And a tree or two?!
There are a couple trees on CIA just south of Caton. There are two on the corner of Cortelyou (by George’s Restaurant). That’s 4 trees per mile?
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Ana says:
I’m so glad, that I am not the only one who thinks this way. I was analyzing it once and realized there is barely any trees. Which is horrible since, there is SO much traffic passing by, the pollution must be the highest in the borough!!! We definitely need to have those car repair shops close down, IF NOT, then have them scrub their streets every month or something! I like the idea BRUZEN gave about the health club!!! Double Parking is ALSO A MAJOR ISSUE! Then the day laborers on 18th Ave…OMG (I am NOT against them looking for work as day laborers, I understand we all have to work somehow) BUT they make the street look not so appealing! They should open a center with bathrooms and seat for them to go in there and wait while someone come and hires them!
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Matt says:
increased bussing!
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jaguar_gorgonne says:
I am not against daylaborers but they make the street look so unappealing. I mean, I am not against them, but why do they have to stand around outside and make an ugly street into even more of an eyesore? Have I summarized your position accurately or not, Ana?
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William says:
Everyone should go here right now and request street trees along CIA.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_permits_and_applications/forestry_service_request.html
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z. says:
It would be great if the street were more pedestrian-friendly: longer crosswalk times (you take your life into your hands when you cross!!), cleaner sidewalks with fewer obstructions, more streetlights, fewer desolate storefronts/empty lots. I live near Caton & if I need to go to Cortelyou, I either take the bus or walk to the east of CIA.
Trees would be nice, but feeling like I’m not going to get robbed or run over would be even better.
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Bruzen says:
The difficulty we face is our culture has been made to be at the service of the CAR. Everything is about serving cars and traffic and not people.
As the economy is changing, and it seems it may have to move to a more sustainable model, this very prominent aspect will need close examination.
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Phil says:
North of Newkirk to the parade grounds has always been an industrial kind of area as long as I’ve been in Brooklyn these last 30 years. The car repair shops, the car washes, the gas stations have dominated. For other businesses to move into these buildings would be an enormous undertaking, not to mention expense. The city could start rezoning the area so that certain kinds of business can’t stay there. But that’s a process and matters will probably take years. One thing I’d like to see go though is the construction supply near the corner of 18th Ave & CIA, next door to the Dunkin Donut place. In the mornings a lot of men congregate there and across the street looking for day work. In the meantime I think traffic engineers have to look at the traffic lights and coordinate them to calm the traffic and maybe install turning arrows at every intersection. Maybe more traffic lights have to be put in with crosswalks so people are not crossing against traffic all the time. Police have to enforce the prohibition against double parking. Many of the cars sit and idle and that in itself should bring tickets. In fact it would be helpful if the police would enforce the traffic better.
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Hi there says:
I do love the reliable & frequent B68 buses, as well as Los Mariachis.
What I worry about: I’m a teacher in the neighborhood and my students often walk home on CIA. They are often nearly hit by the forklifts (yes, forklifts!) riding back and forth on the sidewalk between Cortelyou and Ditmas outside of the construction supply place. I called 311 about it once. The fumes from the car repair shops are also dizzying, and the ventilation in these repair shops is such that you hit a wall of exhaust/fumes as you walk by their entrances. While I realize that these are small businesses just trying to get by, I wish they did not operate in such high foot traffic areas.
I love everyone’s suggestions for green, open space. A bike path would be awesome if the double parking could somehow be eliminated, but with the path on Ocean Pkwy so nearby (and with a similar end point) I wonder if the city would buy into the idea.
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brian says:
It’s a bit much to expect to get rid of the body shops, car washes and building supply businesses. The fact that cars/forklifts overflow onto the sidewalk shows that they are busy and serve a need in the community. Paving the road would do wonders. It’s a complete disaster of potholes and patches. Trees. About 250 of them. One in front of every building. Bike lane would be nice, but honestly you should ride your bike on one of the residential streets and avoid it all together IMO.
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Deb Siner says:
We were househunting in 1987 and found Park Slope out of our range, and our real estate agent suggested another neighborhood. We were very dubious as we drove down CIA, seeing all the “Flats fixed” signs etc., but turned onto Cortelyou and then onto Argyle. The agent turned to us and said, “You see, you’re not in Kansas anymore.” I am so happy that CIA has remained authentically industrial and the magic is still here, 23 years of happy living later.
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William says:
There is really no reason why it should be an industrial strip. Central park doesn’t have industrial strips around it. Our park kicks central park’s ass.
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Hi there says:
Though it’s quite a bit pricier to live near Central Park, isn’t it?!?
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Matt says:
I’d settle for a few of those shiny bus new shelters. The northest corner of CIA and Cortelyou is especially desolate when I’m waiting for the B68 at night. Hopefully the new gyro place will brighten up that spot a bit.
Anyone know who I can write to about bus shelters?
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DitmasDyke says:
I love “It’s a Dog’s World” & the laundry on Beverley but wish they were on a better street! We need car washes, gas stations & oil change places but they ought not take over the street. They do this because they haven’t been ticketed. Look at the success on Tenth Ave in Manhattan where retail & apartment buildings co-exist nicely with the industrial businesses (40s & 50s). The double-parking is a real problem – enforcing that alone would dramatically improve CIA (and that includes Midwood where it’s even worse). A true problem is also all the folks who cross Cortelyou outside of the crosswalk and don’t wait for the delayed walk sign which creates a jam.
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MaggE says:
CIA is never going to be a sweet little cafe row. That’s for Cortelyou Rd.
Make it safe and clean, and it’ll be 1000% better.
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Tom says:
We should take a look at what Atlantic Avenue has done.
The thing is that we need both industrial areas (where else to get cars fixed?) and truck routes (they’re not allowed on Ocean Parkway, and, yes, if we didn’t allow trucks into our neighborhood, our stores would be pretty empty.)
The question is how to bring balance. How do we support our local businesses, improve the horrid aesthetics, and make the place safe for pedestrians?
Atlantic Avenue manages to achieve this balance with a nice mix of consumer friendly shops (bakeries, restaurants, and such), industrial sites, and large car and truck lanes.
Let’s improve the roadway, and get rid of the double-parked cars. Even if we kept traffic speeds the same, it would remove the mania of weaving trucks and cars. (Adding traffic enforcement cameras would be a major boon too.)
For aesthetics, I agree: trees, benches, proper sidewalk enforcement. Then improve the mix of stores and enforce the NYC ban on garish signs.
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James says:
To repeat myself and everyone else here… I’d like to see those black “Traffic Enforcement” cop car ACTUALLY doing something! Honestly, I’ve seen about 2 or 3 car pulled over since I’ve lived in this neighborhood (2+ years). And I’ve NEVER seen a ticket on a double-parked car.
Honestly, I don’t understand why not. They could add a half dozen “metermaids” and a few dozen stop light cameras to this part of Brooklyn and they could pay for the salaries with the fines AND create lots of revenue for the city.
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James says:
Liena — in a few days (when this post “fizzles out”), will you cut-and-paste these responses and send them to Paula Crespo.
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DitmasDyke says:
There’s a red light camera at Dorchester and CIA
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A-Train says:
It’s a shame the city sank so much money into cutting up the circle with the crazy re-distrubution of traffic, which hasn’t helped a thing. Money could have gone to the beautification as mentioned abovce.
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Westminstress says:
February 4th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
I agree with comments re: the double parking and the need for more trees. CIA would be much nicer if it were greener and cleaner. We frequent many of the restaurants on CIA (Pakiza, Madina, Famous Pita, Gyro King, Los Mariachis). These are great places and I wouldn’t want to see them go! We also use the bike shop and the plumbing supply store, have even visited the building supply store and the paint shop. We don’t have a car but when we get one we will bring it to the place on Beverley and CIA. I wouldn’t want to see these services disappear.
I too would like to see an official day labor pick-up site in the neighborhood. It is better for workers to have a place to go where they can have access to bathrooms and social services. Official sites also help workers enforce wage-and-hour laws. Residents would obviously benefit from this as well, because unemployed workers wouldn’t be loitering in the streets. An official day labor pick-up site would be a win-win for the entire community.
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James says:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
A-Train… again, the police would actually have to ENFORCE the traffic laws for things to work. If folks continue to insist on turning right (exiting the traffic circle) from the INSIDE of the circle… If folks just ignore the traffic lights… If folks just block the intersections… and there is NO consequence other than some honking, WHY o’ WHY would traffic improve.
Traffic enforcement is the only effective way to educate the knuckleheads in this town. The police have given up on this. Why isn’t this at the TOP of the list at the community board meetings? OK, crime is usually at the top. Makes sense. But, then there is all sorts of hubbub about pretty streetscapes, landmarking, downzoning, upzoning?!? Really… that’s the priority? How about making the streets safe to walk across and drive or ride on?!
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OLD TIMER says:
CIA has gone downhill since that illegal building supply place opened just north of 18th Ave. McDonald Ave is zoned for that kind of heavy industry, while CIA is not. There must have been payoffs since there has never been enforcement despite them turning a building into a gravel lot. Why can they douuble park their dunp trucks or block neighbors garages accross CIA? They are what brought the day laborers to the corner.
Every city needs an “automotive alley”, but with the addition of these building supply places CIA is overwhelmed!
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William says:
February 5th, 2010 at 11:06 am
I agree that every city needs these types of businesses, but generally they are not found in such density in such heavily residential areas. There are plenty of areas where all of these places would fit in with the surrounding neighborhood. And I don’t think they should all go, there is nothing wrong with a couple of gas stations, or a garage or car wash. This is the very heart of Brooklyn. The character of CIA is incongruous with everything around it.
Beer Garden!
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brian says:
February 5th, 2010 at 11:59 am
I agree with most of the comments regarding traffic enforcement Bus shelters, more trees etc. But it’s pretty unrealistic to think a service like Church Avenue BID would have the power to actually remove business from CIA??
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manco says:
Has anyone called 311 to complain about the double parking by the auto car places? It only takes a few minute to call in. Maybe if the local precinct gets enough complaints they’ll take notice. I know this is being highly optimistic but don’t traffic cops love giving tickets? That’s just a hotbed of violations.
And the comment about the day laborers…was that a joke? Are you suggesting we apply a Guiliani broken window policy to these people and “fix” them so they look shiny and new? These people are not being picked up for white collar jobs or a GQ fashion shoot. Displacing them won’t stop idiots from running the lights or double parking or breath new life to CIA. If it was a tongue and cheek comment my apologies.
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liz says:
complain complain on this blog. complain about getting rid of auto shops now. if you have a problem with auto shops on cia and the pollution don’t come in the area then.
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William says:
February 5th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Ok so to summarize:
Liz is voting for more auto shops, legalized double parking, and an oil refinery.
Several people want a new banya devoted solely to day laborers.
We all agree on some more trees.
And I am voting for a beer garden.
I hope Pratt and the BID find this helpful.
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Onalistus says:
I honestly like CIA just the way it is. What’s all this biz about being unsafe to walk passed cars parked on the sidewalk? Just walk around. Stop being a big baby. You just move a little to the right or left and around you go. You’ll figure it out. I guarantee it!
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Onalistus says:
Oh, and please don’t call 311 about the double parking. That’s really lame. When you really just sit back and take a deep breath and take off your diapers do you all really care that much? My parents at the ripe age of 59 decided to move to an old-people-home (why I have no idea!) where people obsess over the littlest things because there’s nothing else to obsess about. Lawn is too short. Lawn is too long. His car horn is too loud. Her golf cart is too flashy. In all honesty, a lot of y’all sound like that. Just calm down. Enjoy that you live ten minutes from an amazing park, go eat your overrated Philippino food (I mean, it’s “ok”), and enjoy that Spring is on it’s wonderful way. Stop calling the cops every time someone farts.
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William says:
I am truly baffled by any response like Onalistus and Liz. This isnt a thread about complaining, this is a thread about identifying issues in our neighborhood that we could possibly improve. You could participate by suggesting some ideas. Do you really think that CIA is the worlds most perfect place? Do you vacation on CIA? Are you so unimaginitive that you can’t think of anything except that the neighborhood needs more people insulting each other? I would be scared to see Onalistus’s house. Walls and ceilings covered in their own feces and urine. “No complaints here! Improving my life is for sissies!”
I will buy you both beers at the new CIA beer garden.
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James says:
February 6th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Liz and Onalistus — I, for one, have no interest in closing down businesses on CIA. HOWEVER, they should operate on their property and not in the street. Why is that controversial? Think about 4th Avenue in Park Slope/Gowanus. The garages and car wash don’t take up a lane of 4th Avenue (though they do encroach on the sidewalk — but that is very different) Between Caton and Beverely, CIA is a 2-lane road. Do you both think this is perfectly acceptable?
Do you also think that having 4 trees on this same stretch of road is perfectly acceptable?
Do you think that traffic enforcement is unnecessary or unwanted?
(This makes me think that your part of the problem…)
Also, is it so ridiculous that we would want to make CIA more pleasant so MORE businesses could operate successfully? Businesses other than auto shops and construction supply companies? What would attract me to walk or take the bus to any of the restaurants or other (non-auto) shops on this ‘wasteland’ of a street? Why would attract me to OPEN a new business on this street?!
That’s what we’re talking about. “If you don’t like it, you shouldn’t live here.” is a completely shit attitude.
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no_slappz says:
February 6th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Zoning Changes. When you can eat in a restaurant that shares a wall with a transmission repair shop, something is wrong.
Visuals matter. Sidewalk foot-traffic matters. Atlantic Avenue from 4th Ave toward Carrol Gardens/Brooklyn Heights is the model.
From the circle at the base of CIA to Foster Avenue, the street-level apartments destroy the pedestrian experience. Zoning laws converting those units to retail space are needed.
On many avenues, including 4th Avenue, there is no parking during rush hour. Violators are fined. But the car washes on CIA block a full lane of traffic during those hours. Where are the traffic cops?
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Xris (Flatbush Gardener) says:
February 6th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Wow. Did anyone except me use the contact info to find out how to get involved in the project?
7 lanes for vehicles? Really?
Every time I walk on CIA, I have visions of what it could become. Wider sidewalks, planted medians, pedestrian bulbs, bike lanes. And yeah, no more car washes using three full lanes of public property – sidewalks, parking lanes, and a lane of traffic – to dry and buff luxury vehicles.
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bklynartiste says:
Agree whole-heartedly with William, James, no_slappz, and Xris.
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Brenda from Flatbush says:
Two thoughts.
1. Never wonder why a certain area seems full of flagrant traffic violators who never get tickets. The ticketing is solely a revenue-producing activity, unrelated to safety, and apparently done mainly in areas pre-identified as “likely to pay tickets.” Hence, Park Sloper y on PPW to pick up cider at the Greenmarket, but crazedups are fiercely ticketed for briefly double-parking dollar-cab drivers can drive up onto the sidewalk doing incessant U-turns, terrorizing pedestrians all day long, along Church Avenue, and in 20 years you will never see one get ticketed. (At least, we haven’t!)
2. As for a “vision” for CIA, let’s think back to its origins: an artery connecting the green heart of Prospect Park with the glorious beach of Coney Island. A poster above alluded to this with the streetcar suggestion (excellent!) Something similar is developing with the bike greenway along Ocean Parkway. It’s unlikely that the AutoWorld aspect can be turned around now that it’s taken root there, but bringing some of the park’s karma south as far as Cortelyou with green space would be a start. -
scott says:
I like that fact that it’s almot exclusively mom & pop stores.
From a Ditmas Parker’s perspective, bike lane is pretty unnecessary, and I ride every day. To get to Coney, you can take any of the lovely streets down the west side of the train line down to Avenue X or so, and then switch over to Coney Island.
In fact, the way I discovered DP was on such a ride as I was heading back to Prospect Park. I had no idea that our little haven existed.
Could Coney Island Ave it be prettier? Sure. Is it worth disrupting traffic for? Questionable. And with Coney Island slated to become some corporate playground, I’m concerned that by ‘improving’ the Avenue we’re going to supplant some of the auto repair joints with banks.
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bean says:
February 7th, 2010 at 10:31 am
it seems pretty agreed here: the double parking is awful. it turns cia into a single lane road and slows everything down. fix that and you fix a lot.
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bklynartiste says:
I’d be quite happy with banks on CIA. At least I could find a reputable bank ATM near where I live. And sure beats the look of double parked auto shops. Honestly, I think CIA would do well to put the larger anchor stores, banks, what have you, while leaving the mom and pops on the intersection roads (Church, Cortelyou, Ave whatever letter of the alphabet).
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karenz says:
the intersection is very dangerous at Cortelyou & CIA. Also would love to see TREES. It’s a very desolate street.
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Tom says:
February 7th, 2010 at 11:02 pm
@Scott, you make a good point. If we disrupt traffic off of CIA, then they will start rumbling down our precious side streets…
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J says:
February 7th, 2010 at 11:32 pm
Did anyone suggest disrupting traffic? I think most everyone was talking about *improving* traffic by clearing all 4 lanes (from traffic/parking violations), creating turning lanes and lights and keeping traffic rolling smoothly.
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carissa says:
February 8th, 2010 at 11:45 am
@the poster who mentioned pedestrians crossing against the light at CIA/Cortelyou- one of those lights is VERY quick. It’s too fast and I do wind up jumping it (with my stroller so I can’t move as fast) as soon as I know it’s about to change. Not sure if a little longer to cross would help the problem or not.
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Jeff says:
Bike lanes and trees would be massive improvements. Thinking big, perhaps a nice meridian a la Vanderbilt.
Brian: I bike on CIA almost every day. As bad as CIA is, there are far worse roads to bike on and for some rides it is simply the most convenient route. Plus, bike lanes have been proven to slow down traffic and reduce accidents. Perhaps (perhaps) they would make CIA a bit safer.
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Kasia says:
The CIA/Cortelyou pedestrian crossing light is indeed MUCH too short – the one in front of George’s Diner. Anyone who is skeptical, please take a look next time you walk there! I wrote to the Dept. of Transportation about it & they basically told me it’s fine. (I’m going to write to them again and send them the link to this discussion.) I’m glad that we have this conversation going – there are so many little things, such as retiming pedestrian crossing signals, that would vastly improve Quality of Life in our neighborhood.
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Murray says:
February 8th, 2010 at 11:47 pm
I wish Million Trees NYC would plant about 10,000 of them on Coney Island Avenue. I’m sure with some money and planning something nice could come of CIA. Its the fastest route on my bicycle home from work, but I only dare riding tis street if I am running very late. Its also quite a depressing ride after the exhiliration of riding through the park and newly redesigned, bike friendly, park circle.
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manco says:
February 11th, 2010 at 10:48 am
Onalistus, are you offering to maintain my lawn? People’s kindness never ceases to amaze me.
Double parking on a busy street like CIA potentially poses hazards to both drivers and pedestrians no matter how safe you are. Yes one call to 311 can be deemed lame but my SUGGESTION was for others to call in since it was a recurring complaint by some commentators…its called power in numbers.
Oh and I moved on from diapers just last week, tighty whities are the bomb! A beer garden in one of the auto shops with a huge palm tree and some lawn chairs out front would absolutely rule. I’ll buy the first frothy round for the day laborers.
